Stop Losing Money In Real Estate: The Real Reason 87% of Agents Fail & How To Use AI To Protect Your Portfolio In This Market

Wayne Zell welcomes Joe Killinger to discuss his extensive background in real estate and the evolution of the brokerage industry, highlighting the concerning agent dropout rate. They explore the impact of COVID-19 on interviewing with brokerage firms and offer tips for entering the commercial real estate market, including the role of AI. Joe shares his motivation and key advice for new agents, while addressing the challenges and opportunities faced by young entrepreneurs. The episode emphasizes the importance of communication and a deep understanding of entrepreneurship.

Key Points

• The commercial real estate industry is evolving rapidly with a significant focus on content creation, proof stacking, and leveraging digital presence to build credibility.

• To succeed in the commercial real estate industry, especially for new agents, having the right mindset, thorough market knowledge, and a structured approach to business development is essential.

• AI is transforming both the back-end operations and front-end lead generation in commercial real estate, making processes more efficient and reducing the need for extensive staffing.

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction and Joe Killinger's background in real estate

1:46 Evolution of the real estate brokerage industry and agent dropout rate

5:06 Interviewing with brokerage firms and the impact of COVID-19

10:42 Tips for entering the commercial real estate market and the role of AI

16:10 Joe's motivation and key advice for new agents

21:46 Challenges and opportunities for young entrepreneurs

23:00 Importance of communication and understanding entrepreneurship

25:37 Contact information and closing remarks

Quotes

"You have to make yourself easy to find because people are doing the research before they call you now."

- Joe Killinger

"There's no industry where you can't go in your first year and make a 100 or $200,000 if you do it right."

- Joe Killinger

"The agents that know how to use that AI, they're gonna be making the change in their marketplace, and they're gonna become the leader very, very quickly."

- Joe Killinger

"It's mindset. You really have to have the right mind in sales."

- Joe Killinger

"If you teach them how to communicate, show them how to communicate, how to connect with people eye to eye voice to voice, whether it's over Zoom or, or on the telephone or in person."

-Wayne Zell

Transcript

Wayne Zell: Hi. This is Wayne Zell, and welcome to Blueprint for Wealth, your fast paced half hour video podcast that is designed to help you realize your personal dreams of wealth and freedom. We always introduce new people, new entrepreneurs who have something to say to you as an entrepreneur. And today, we're gonna focus a little bit more on a segment of entrepreneurs in the real estate industry, particularly the commercial real estate industry. And my special guest today is none other than Joe Killinger.

Welcome, Joe. Welcome to Blueprint for Wealth.

Joe Killinger: Wayne, thank you for having me on.

Wayne Zell: Joe has been doing this actively for over thirty years, and he wears he's worn all different hats. So he's been an agent. He's been an investor in commercial real estate. He's done syndication as as have I on the tax side. He's been a founder, and he's operated companies that operate properties as well as operating the properties himself.

So he's done pretty much every aspect of commercial real estate, and he's personally responsible for the sale and or direct involvement in the marketing of over 6,500 commercial real estate assets include including closing transactions with over $950,000,000 of closing proceeds throughout The US. So he invests his time and money today in several real estate brands, and he works with these brands to ensure that they remain at the forefront of what's achievable in the power of content, community, and business innovation. So, Joe, you know more about commercial real estate than anybody I've ever met. And, you know, how would you say the commercial real estate brokerage industry is evolving today?

Joe Killinger: It's it's probably it's evolving faster than it ever has. I mean, it's you know, when I first got into it, it was cold call, cold call, cold call. That's all you did all day. And so you know? And it was very, very hard.

And, I mean, we still do we still do cold calls, but there's also you need to structure today to where you're creating content. You're doing proof stacking. It's essentially just writing a white paper about a transaction that you did and posting that out on the Internet for everybody to see. So when they find you you know? Because now when somebody say, you know what?

This broker's kinda interesting. Let me let me check them out. They're gonna Google you. And if they don't find anything, that makes you a little bit iffy. But if they see a white paper that you wrote that said, I've done a deal in the in this asset class, in this marketplace, Now you're you're a viable option.

They probably will pick up the phone and give you a call. So content creation, proof stacking stacking. Email program. Proof stacking is the white paper. Yeah.

Yeah. He's writing the white paper.

Wayne Zell: And testimonials, you know, clients too. Right? What's that? Testimonials from clients.

Joe Killinger: Absolutely. Reviews is another one because you know? And make sure you're getting on Google Google and make sure you have a Google business profile. It just you've gotta make yourself easy to find because people are they're doing the research before they call you now. And, I mean, the cold calling still works, but, you know, that's just the start of the relationship.

They are gonna check you out at some point, and you wanna make sure you have marketing there that can really show what you do and where you do it and your expertise in that and make sure you're bringing value.

Wayne Zell: So it's interesting because, you know, I was in a a leadership group. I dropped out a little while ago because I was older than everybody, and I was telling everybody else what to do. So it really wasn't helpful for me, but I think there was a young commercial real estate brokerage agent there. And he he said, that he was having difficulty breaking into the industry because, you know, cold calling is just really hard to do when you're young. And how do you get people convinced?

Why are we seeing such a high dropout rate in these new, real estate agents that are coming on to work in real estate brokerages.

Joe Killinger: Honestly, Wayne, it's it's the biggest problem that I think our industry has. It's an amazing industry, and it's for younger people. There's no industry where you can't go in your first year and make a 100 or $200,000 if you do it right. But first off, you've gotta be in the right mindset to really get into this industry. Know that it's going to be hard.

Those first few months or year or years is gonna be very difficult, but in the end, it can really get you going. But when you're out there interviewing brokerage firms, you know, they will they you put your resume in. They call you. You go and interview, and then you sit and hope that they pick you. That's typically what happens.

Wayne Zell: Okay.

Joe Killinger: I want you to do something a little bit different. I want you to go in, do preparation on this company before you go to that interview, and you spend time asking about that brokerage firm too. Because I sit and interview people, and they don't ask me many questions. So I answer the questions they should be asking me ahead of time. And we don't have near the fallout, but we still do have fallout.

I mean, I've got commercial brokers international here in Los Angeles, and we have 20 agents. So I think we're in the sixties, but most of it is that something happens either, you know, they've they go, you know what? This is a lot more difficult than I and we tell them in the interviews, listen. This isn't gonna be easy. You're not gonna make money for x amount of years.

If you're not doing everything we're telling you, it's gonna be hard to get going. And a lot of them have that mindset like, well, you know, I I'm gonna do something different. I'm gonna change the way that it's done. You're not. Not.

Wayne Zell: You know,

Joe Killinger: you you it's we've all thought the same damn thing. You know, we were in our twenties once too. We thought, oh, we're gonna do something different, and we all went through the the process. But interviewing the brokerage firm, making sure they're offering a great training program for you because our industry just doesn't do enough training. And that's why our turnover of 87 to 92% after a few years is so high because we don't train enough.

And there's one or two things. You're going to go to boutique firm that's not gonna really offer training. They might offer you some mentoring.

Wayne Zell: Right.

Joe Killinger: If they do, if you're gonna go to a boutique firm, know that it's kind of the Wild Wild West, and you want to make sure that you're getting the right, mentoring at least with somebody. And before they assign you somebody, interview them before you agree. Really interview them. This is a life decision you're making, so make sure you interview them as much as they're interviewing you as best you can. What kind of questions do you

Wayne Zell: recommend that they they ask in the interview? Just out of curiosity.

Joe Killinger: What's your turnover rate like? How many, you know, how many agents have started with your company? How many fell out and fell out? Why do you guys think that they fell out? You know, ask them point blank.

What what can I do different so I don't have this? Really interview them about, you know, tell me about your mentoring program. If I'm gonna be with, Joe Bob over here, what has Joe Bob done mentoring before, and who in this company did he mentor, and can I talk to them? Would that be okay if I talk to them? You know, you wanna make sure you're you're you're really getting in there because this is your life.

Wayne Zell: Yeah.

Joe Killinger: This is your life. This is your career. And if a company is offended by that, you just dodged a bullet. You know? So now It's better it's

Wayne Zell: better to avoid the bullet than to take the bullet and then sit there and be on And go broke. For a period of time.

Joe Killinger: Yeah. And go broke and end up working a, you know, hourly job. But now if you go to a big firm, completely different deal, they're probably gonna put you on a team. And now make sure that you're if you're talking to them, you wanna understand the team and the team dynamic. You know, how is the team set up?

What exactly do they do? How do you you split the responsibilities? Will I just be a lead generator? Now let's say I become the top lead generator. How do I move up in this team?

Really ask those questions because there's I see some brokerages, you get a good person that comes in, and they're making all these calls. They're generating leads. You are you're generating a lead. Joe Bob's over here. He's the senior.

He's getting 50% of the deal. The company's getting a percentage. The team members are getting a percentage. You wanna understand how your compensation is gonna work and how you can go up in that in that team. And so and they the company should tell you that.

So make sure you just ask a lot of questions before you decide to decide on the dotted line and working with a company.

Wayne Zell: It's it's hard. How would you, you know, tell us how the commercial real estate business has been affected because of COVID? You know, everybody working remotely, and then now people are starting to come back or they are they are back in many industries. Yep. How has that impacted the, the industry itself?

Joe Killinger: It depends on which asset class. Office, obviously took a big hit. You know? But we're starting to see it come back. I mean, we're seeing our office team here is really busy right now and they weren't before.

But the ownership in these properties has really got to have an understanding, a lot better understanding of their tenant base. Because if you're bringing a tech company in or an AI company in, that generation of employees want some really good amenities. Actually, everybody wants good amenities. Right? You want to focus on your amenities.

What does your tenant base really need? How can you make it comfortable then for being in the office? Make it so they want to be there. And, you know, you really so office has been doing pretty well. Retail's been staying strong here in LA.

There's I'm in Brentwood, California Yeah. On Santa City Boulevard here in Brentwood. There's just a new brand open. There's probably two brands new brands open a month in that marketplace. It's just amazing what's happening there.

So people are really gearing up for 2026. Investment sales been slow, but we're starting to see we got a lot of dry powder sitting on the sidelines just waiting. You know, everybody's like, well, are we gonna get a cut tomorrow? What are we gonna do? And, you know and plus, there's a lot of people that raise money three to five years ago that are funds.

If they don't spend that money, they gotta give it back.

Wayne Zell: Give it back. So they're Absolutely.

Joe Killinger: Yeah. They're chomping at the bit to really figure out what they're gonna do.

Wayne Zell: Well, that's interesting. I I it's good to hear that it's good to hear that things are starting to to pick up and particularly in the commercial sector and in the office sector. I just I'm nervous about the future of the economy, and so I hope that things continue on that upward trend. If we do see a recession, obviously, that's gonna impact the industry as well. And so I I think a lot of people are a little nervous about, you know, doing, going into the industry, if you will, unless they're really passionate about learning more about commercial real estate.

Because it's it's a great industry, and it's been around for for decades, and it will be around for the foreseeable future. It's not gonna disappear. So

Joe Killinger: Yeah. I mean, you wanna do your due diligence before you sign on. So let's say you get into a company. You wanna get on it'd probably be CoStar. You get on CoStar, look at the asset class you know, kinda have an idea of, you you you where you live, what's the market in that area, what asset class do I want to work on, and is it sustainable for what I want to make a living at?

If I want to make half $1,000,000 then in the second or third year, then well, I better be in a very hot market that's got a lot of activity, and the price per square foot on each transaction can help me achieve my goals. You don't wanna go into you know, I get so many people that I'll get a residential agency come in, and they'll come in and go, I wanna do commercial real estate. I wanna be in Beverly Hills. I'm like, okay. What are you gonna do in Beverly Hills?

And retail. I'm like, okay. Not gonna happen. That's you're you're you're there's not enough deal flow. Yeah.

Or if they say they I had one other a couple months ago, I wanna do multifamily in Beverly Hills. I said, have you looked at the how many transactions have happened in Beverly Hills for multifamily over the last three years? Not not enough to survive. So make sure you do your due diligence before you go into an asset class into a market. Are top What are the top

Wayne Zell: I'm sorry. I didn't let you

Joe Killinger: go ahead. No. That's alright. It's just

Wayne Zell: to make sure know my head. I'm I'm thinking, what are the top three, five markets today for commercial real estate if in your in your opinion?

Joe Killinger: You know, Manhattan? Tell you, there's a broke yeah. Oh, yeah. It's it's busy right now. Busy.

Busy. So there's a big agent we know there, Bob Knackle, and he's he's probably the biggest in in man in New York. Matter of fact, I just saw he's gonna be on Ryan Serhant's new show, or at least maybe we're teasing that anyway. Him and their friends. So but, you know, that's very, very busy.

Los Angeles retail, very busy. You know, we're seeing a lot of car washes. They're very popular right now. But it Interesting. Washes and gas stations, but car washes more so because in the big beautiful bill, they had a 100% depreciation.

Yeah. And so people are after those car washes. Actually, they're overpaying for them in some cases.

Wayne Zell: But Makes me think of breaking bad.

Joe Killinger: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So Anyway. So, yeah, it's there's it just and you gotta remember, real estate is so local.

If I I'm in a high rise in Brentwood. It's just a few miles to the beach. You take this property and move it south and a little bit east. Completely different price point, completely different tenant mix. It's very, very local.

So make sure you really understand what's going on in your marketplace.

Wayne Zell: Good. So AI has become a fascinating thing for me in the practice of law. How is it affecting commercial real estate today?

Joe Killinger: Oh, it's it's huge. It's you know, on the back end, especially. You know? Well, it's both back end and front end. But on the back end, you're not gonna need near as much office staff.

You can track everything with AI now. You can do your your all your I mean, you don't need a receptionist anymore. It can be your direct dial. And all your transaction coordinators, instead of having four of them, you could have one that's overseeing all of it. It's really, really solid for the commercial real estate firms and residential too.

But on the front end, lead generation, it's there's some amazing tools that are coming out. And, you know, it's somebody asked me, is AI gonna affect commercial real estate? And I just said no, and their jaw about drop. I said, but the guy the agents that know how to use that AI, there's gonna be they're gonna be making the change in their marketplace, and they're gonna become the leader very, very quickly. So you have to learn it.

Wayne Zell: Do you talk about that the tools, the AI tools in your booklet?

Joe Killinger: Some of them. Yeah. Some of them. So the booklet, that Wayne's talking about is on the joekellinger.co. I did a booklet called your first ninety days in commercial real estate.

Everything on the website is free. You can go check it out. Just you can go get it. And also, if you're a broker right now and you wanna own your own shop, I wrote a booklet for that too. It tells you all the mistakes that we made when we launched commercial brokers international years ago.

So it tells you what not to do and how to get around and really launch it at a much better way than we did. But but yeah, it's AI is changing real estate. You're just not going to you probably don't need as many agents because you can get so much more coverage. There's these CRMs that have roto dialers in there, it just they can cover such big territory if you like using a roto dial. Some of them do.

Some of the I find the younger generation like to dial. And so Really? Yeah.

Wayne Zell: They actually like to talk to people on the telephone?

Joe Killinger: Yeah. Yeah. They like to pick it up and dial and, you know, but, you know, they're it's just it depends on the agent.

Wayne Zell: Yeah. Sure. You know, I you mentioned that, you're offering a lot of these resources for free on your website, and we'll

Joe Killinger: Yep.

Wayne Zell: Remind the the listeners as to how they can access it. But what inspired you to focus on helping, you know, not only agents but also investors to grow their portfolios instead of just focusing on your own? Because most of the real estate developers I work with don't you know, it's it's it's competition. We're not gonna help other people grow their business. We're gonna do it just for ourselves.

What what inspired you to do this for others?

Joe Killinger: You know, it's when I got into the industry and when my business partner and I launched our companies, you know, we're so we have three companies. We have ICON Capital. It's a commercial mortgage brokerage commercial mortgage company. We have commercial real estate affiliate network, and then we have commercial brokers international, and we run those three companies. But when we were starting out, nobody gave us any advice, and it was terrible.

Fortunately, we had each other. We could bounce ideas back and forth, we still do. But to get into this industry, somebody like it in the days, like a sheep getting thrown into the wolf's den. It's kinda what it's like. And so the goal is to really help people that wanna make it in this industry.

Give them access to information that can really help. And I do I do calls every once. I'll do, like, fifteen minute calls with somebody just, you know, and I use it for content, by the way. I don't just do it out of goodness of my heart. It's for content.

I'll say, yeah. I'm doing it. Do you mind if I record it? And sometimes I can use it. Sometimes I can't.

And more often than not, I can't, but because it's just so repetitive. It's a lot of the same stuff of what what to do. But I do it because it just helps our industry. It really helps grow. And then I'll end up you'd be surprised, Wayne, how often I end up doing deals with those people down the road.

Because they get going, and then they'll call up and say, hey. I've got this guy who's got an off market deal. Do you have any buyers for it? And I said, I don't, but let me talk to our agents, and then deals can happen.

Wayne Zell: You never know what what you do for others will come back and Yep. And do for you. And it's, you know, do unto others as you would do unto yourself, but most importantly, give. The more you give, the more you're gonna get. I mean, that's just that's human nature, I think.

Some people don't follow that rule, but I think it's a good one. And I think you're really really really on top of things if, you know, that's the motivation. You help somebody else. If something may come back, but that's not it's not a quid pro quo. You're not expecting them to give you something back.

It's just you're helping somebody else. They'll remember that in the future. Yeah. So I think that's really important. What one piece of advice do you find yourself giving over and over again?

You said you repeat a lot of stuff with the people that you talk to on these fifteen minute calls. What one piece of advice is repetitive to you, but you seem to be giving it a lot?

Joe Killinger: It's mindset. You really have to have the right mind in sales. In sales, you have to have the right mindset. You know, you've gotta prepare ahead of time. And, you know, if you don't have the right mindset getting into this business, it's gonna eat you alive.

You've got to you know, preparation is is key. A daily structure is key. You know, make sure that you don't deviate from that too hard and too often. But, you know, because your first year or so is 95% of your day is business development, and that's the hardest. You know, that's the hardest.

But also, get yourself educated. You know, the the thing is is and here's the problem we have in our another problem we have in our industry is I take let's say, Wayne, you come to me. Hey. I'm thinking about getting into real estate. How what do I do?

I got my license. Okay. Go ahead. Let's get you started. We won't let you get on the phones right away.

We're gonna say, okay, Wayne. What I want you to do is what market, what asset class do you wanna do? Okay. Great. That's that's a great market, great asset class.

I'm gonna come to you at the end of the week, and I want you to tell me everything that's going on in that marketplace, in that asset class. Then we're gonna sit down and we're gonna say, I'm gonna go, okay, Wayne. Let's say it's multifamily Santa Monica. Wayne, what's going on in multifamily in Santa Monica right now? And you're gonna go, Joe, right now there's 14 properties on the market.

Average days on market is x y z. Average units average building size is this. Average list price is this. Average sales price is that. And it that is where you start getting the business because now you've got something to talk about when you call somebody.

Because if you're just gonna cold call, hey. Are you thinking about buying or selling your properties? No. Okay. Bye.

Doesn't work. If you get on the phone and go, hey. This is Wayne from Brokers This is Wayne from Commercial Brokers International. International. Do Do you you know know that a property just came on the market right down the street from you?

If you have interest, I'd love to talk you talk to you about it. Or did you see that that property sold right down the street? I can send you the information. Yeah. You know?

Now you can have a real conversation with somebody. Now if at week number one, you can't answer all my questions, I'm gonna say, okay, Wayne. I'll see you next week. Same time, same place. Let's do this again.

I can guarantee you, week number two, you're gonna have all that information down. Now get on the phones and be successful.

Wayne Zell: Well, that's great advice. I mean, educating yourself first, preparing yourself

Joe Killinger: Yep.

Wayne Zell: As part of that, and then then being comfortable giving information to people because they want that information.

Joe Killinger: Yep.

Wayne Zell: You know, if you just say, well, are you interested in buying or selling? Well, yeah. But what do you have to give to me? What what kind of information can you give me about why I should work with you? Why should I work with your agency or your brokerage?

Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's it's very it's that's a good starting point. Mhmm. The next generation of real estate professionals, I mean, hopefully, it will continue to be a viable and and, vital industry that it has to. I mean Mhmm.

We're we're occupying retail space. We're occupying, office buildings. We're occupying multifamily. We're occupying, industrial space. There's, you know, there's more online stuff that's being done, obviously, but there's still a need for restaurants and service businesses and others.

And so what is the what is the next generation going to need to do to succeed where your generation didn't do this?

Joe Killinger: Well, I think that's they were born with these things in their hands. Right?

Wayne Zell: Yeah. You

Joe Killinger: know? This this is where it's going. They're not they don't have any fear of using this. And I think that is there lies a real opportunity for them because that this generation can get out there and do use all these tools to they're gonna be faster. You know?

The only thing is is our the communication. You have to work on communication with them a lot more. And but and I think, you know, there's and I got into this conversation. I don't know how how well it went on their end, but I was talking to a guy the other day, and he said, you know, I really feel bad for the younger generation that was work from home. And I go, what do you mean?

And he goes, because they just don't have the social structure when they're out there interviewing right now. They don't under really understand. And I'm I haven't thought about that. But I think a lot of these young people, if you give them the right opportunity, they can knock it out of the park in this industry because they've got, you know, all the tools. And as long as you can get them show them how to do the cold calling, understanding the market, unstoppable.

Wayne Zell: It's interesting. You know, it's there's a parallel in our industry too. I think the ability to communicate, has been hasn't been as robust as when we were growing up. And Sure. I think if you teach them how to communicate, show them how to communicate, how to connect with people eye to eye voice to voice, whether it's over Zoom or, or on the telephone or in person.

I think, that they they have an advantage over our generation significantly because of their knowledge of technology, and and they're learning how to use all the tools that we're just starting to learn ourselves. And I I think it's really it's a valuable that's a valuable piece of advice. So hopefully, the listeners will get something out of that. You know, our listeners are not just commercial real estate agents, and I'm sure we'll get a lot of people who tune into this because we'll we'll market it and you'll market it. But what one piece of advice would you just give any entrepreneur who's starting out today if you had to give them one piece of advice?

Joe Killinger: You know, it it really goes back to mindset. You you want you need to have the drive and, you know, understand your why. Why am I an entrepreneur? Because it's you see so many people with in their title, they have entrepreneur. They have CEO.

They have, you know, all of that. Yeah. But why are you an entrepreneur? What makes you an entrepreneur? You need to truly understand that.

Why do you think you are an entrepreneur? Because I've got failed companies. You know, I got my teeth kicked in more often than I've had success. And that's an entrepreneur because you can if you can pick up and and keep going forward, you know, that's something. So you better be you better have understand your why.

You better have the right mindset once you figure that out, and you sure as hell be it's not a nine to five. It's, when it's done.

Wayne Zell: No. Yeah. For those of us that have done that, and I have done it multiple times, it is a it's an it's an invigorating experience Yep. But it's also a scary one too. Yeah.

So you gotta have the stomach for for the risk and for the, and for the challenge. Yeah. But that's great advice. So we've been talking with Joe Killinger, and he is really a guru in the commercial real estate industry both in in terms of investment and brokerage. Joe, if people wanna get in touch with you, you have a variety of, places that they can get in touch with you, and we'll post it on the, on the screen in the broadcast.

How do they get into what's the best way to get in touch with you and learn more about your your products and your services?

Joe Killinger: Sure. It's just joe@joekellinger.co.

Wayne Zell: Awesome.

Joe Killinger: Joe kellinger dot c o is the simplest way. I answer all my emails. It's from me. So yeah.

Wayne Zell: And we'll post all the LinkedIn and Facebook stuff up on the screen so people can get that as well. But Yep. It's it's been a pleasure having you on Blueprint for Wealth, and thank you for your your wisdom and your advice for those who are really interested in commercial real estate.

Joe Killinger: Thank you for having me on, Wayne.

Wayne Zell: Alright. See you next time on Blueprint for Wealth. Tune in for another episode with a great entrepreneurial guest who will tell you how to do things better.