Mastering Outsourcing: Strategies to Scale, Boost Business Profit & Efficiency

Wayne Zell and Kirsten Graham discuss outsourcing essentials for small businesses: the role and origins of virtual assistants, privacy concerns, bookkeeping and CRM challenges, and software integration. They cover using outsourcing to boost company value, build global teams, document processes, prevent burnout, scale operations, ensure quality control, prioritize tasks, and evaluate outsourcing profitability.

Key Points

• Outsourcing can significantly reduce costs and increase profit margins by leveraging global talent for tasks such as bookkeeping, software management, and marketing.

• Business owners should focus on hiring for specific skill sets rather than searching for a "magic unicorn" who can do everything, ensuring the right person is in the right role.

• Effective documentation and the creation of standard operating procedures (SOPs) are crucial for maintaining business continuity and building value into your business.

Timestamps

0:00 Introduction and Guest Background

0:55 Outsourcing Essentials for Small Businesses

3:17 Exploring Virtual Assistance Roles and Origins

5:20 Addressing Outsourcing Privacy Concerns

7:28 Overcoming Bookkeeping and CRM Challenges

10:48 Software Integration for Business Management

12:23 Strategic Outsourcing to Enhance Company Value

13:37 Cultivating a Global Team Dynamic

17:22 Documenting Processes for Operational Efficiency

19:13 Outsourcing to Combat Burnout and Scale Up

21:21 Quality Control in Outsourced Operations

24:22 Prioritizing Tasks for Outsourcing

25:15 Identifying Energy-Draining Tasks

26:10 Team Building for Business Transformation

27:22 Maximizing Income with Marketing VAs

27:53 Assessing Outsourcing Profitability

28:15 Episode Wrap-Up and Next Episode Teaser

Quotes

"The biggest mistake a lot of business owners make is they wanna hire a magic unicorn."

- Kirsten Graham

"The ability to delegate is critical for creating a business with transferable value."

- Wayne Zell

"You're the leader of your business. Act like the leader."

- Kirsten Graham

"Outsourcing frees you up to focus on what really matters."

- Kirsten Graham

Transcript

Wayne Zell: Hi. This is Wayne Zell, and welcome to Blueprint for Wealth, your fast paced videocast that's designed to help you realize your personal dreams of wealth and freedom. And we try to bring you exciting content, new content, and people who have great stories to tell about their entrepreneurship journey as well as how they're helping others grow their businesses. And today, we have with us a very special guest, Graham. Kirsten, welcome to the show.

Before we get into specific questions about your business, Kirsten, and how you're helping others grow theirs, give us a little bit about your background. First of all, where are you from originally?

Kirsten Graham: Sure thing, Wayne. So I'm originally from Virginia. I live in Sarasota, Florida now, and I love helping business owners.

Wayne Zell: Where in Virginia?

Kirsten Graham: I was I was born and raised in Richmond Richmond, Virginia.

Wayne Zell: It's it's great that, you're helping other people. Tell us about virtual assistance and why outsourcing is such a great strategy for small business owners.

Kirsten Graham: Sure. So I actually started helping my current business partner, actually outsource about seventeen years ago. So it was something we kinda fell upon. And she was at the time building a marketing agency, and that's when everything really switched over to digital marketing. It was when small local businesses were first introduced to fan pages by Facebook.

They were finally starting to understand that LinkedIn maybe wasn't just a resume site, and they were hearing things about blogging and email marketing. So we focused in and did a focus group to find out, you know, what small business owners really wanted and needed. And then from there, she ended up creating a course, which she taught live, each of those topics, and they sold out, which was great. But then all of a sudden, everyone wanted her to do it for them. I don't wanna post on LinkedIn. I don't I don't wanna do email marketing, but I I you say it's important, so I wanna try it. Right? And so she ended up getting busy rather quickly. And at that time, you know, you didn't really know what to charge for those services. So looking back, she was definitely undercharging.

And so she was talking about trying to find some help. And we actually leaned in. We had a couple of great college interns that helped out for a while. And I said to her, I've read about outsourcing overseas. Would you want to try that?

And she said, okay. If you'll help me with it. And that led us down a very windy and interesting road. It had lots of positives and, you know, lots of lots of big mistakes we made along the way. We've outsourced to five different countries and literally hired hundreds of virtual assistants at this point. But, yeah, it was it was an amazing journey, and I joke that the fact that we're still outsourcing today is because we were simply too stubborn to stop back in the day.

Wayne Zell: Well, you believe in it. It's something that, you believe in, and it gives you a reason to do what you do every day, which I really respect because that's what gets me going in the morning too. Tell me a little bit about the types of virtual assistants that you place or help people, hire on the outsourced basis. I mean, they're they come in so many different shapes and sizes, so there's different types. And then I'd like to know more about the countries, from where you're outsourcing these folks.

Kirsten Graham: Sure. Right now, we're completely leaning into The Philippines, just based on what we're hiring for. And it's interesting. I think the biggest mistake a lot of business owners make is they wanna hire a magic unicorn. They wanna hire this person who is going to be brilliant at bookkeeping and incredibly creative to do all their marketing, and that just doesn't exist.

So we really try to help our clients understand you wanna hire the right person for the right job even if they're only working for you a few hours a month. That's what we really focus on. So Judy and I focus on three different types of virtual assistants, which are software virtual assistants for helping clients, really leverage CRMs and lead magnets and email marketing, all of those things. And with that, generally, our clients, they may hire one of the VAs for a few hours a month and then not meet them again for a few months.

Wayne Zell: Okay.

Kirsten Graham: The other thing is bookkeeping virtual assistants. So we help our clients hire awesome bookkeepers who take care of all of their bookkeeping for them. And we have a whole process, again, talking about cultural differences and then how to manage a team member overseas. And then the last thing is really marketing virtual So giving clients the ability to do what you and I do. We talked about this before we hit record, which is we just show up and have these great conversations, and our team takes care of everything else. So having a smart virtual assistant.

Wayne Zell: Software, bookkeeping, marketing. Yes. What about a receptionist?

Kirsten Graham: I feel like with AI now, I feel there's so much I mean, everything's really going to AI. So Okay. Chatbots, I mean, very few people, I think, are going to hire someone to answer the phone moving forward. But, yeah, those are services that are offered. I have hired those people one on one for individual companies. I've also hired medical records directors for law firms. So I've done a lot of hiring of photography editors for large photo companies and things like that. But, really, I think a lot of things are moving more towards AI, so you just wanna figure that out. But we really focus on those three. But, absolutely, you can hire a VA to do almost anything for you.

Wayne Zell: Let's let's talk about bookkeepers for a second because that's an area that I'm particularly interested in as a CPA and a lawyer, and I'm a tax lawyer. And one of the big concerns that clients have conveyed to me about outsourcing bookkeeping or even tax return preparation is the issue of privacy and confidentiality. How do you ensure that the information that you're giving to this person is going to be protected?

Kirsten Graham: Yeah. So we have a process with our clients. One, we encourage them to always own their bookkeeping software. It's it's very typical in The US. If you hire a bookkeeping company locally, they will generally sign up for QuickBooks for you, which means they own your account. We So really encourage our clients to own their own account. Okay. Also means you can move from one bookkeeper to the other if you're not happy, whether it's someone in The US or someone overseas. Making sure you're just giving that bookkeeper bookkeeping permissions so they're not seeing all of your account information. Then we also have a process where you're never emailing things. You're always uploading it to a a secure Google Drive folder and making sure your full account numbers aren't on everything or really on anything. So we always go over those details. But sometimes I think people have a false sense of security because a lot of the large CPA firms and a lot lot of the large bookkeeping firms are outsourcing. I hire what what really gave me the ability to hire for small businesses, hire bookkeepers for small businesses because I'm not a bookkeeper, was I've hired so many bookkeepers for CPA firms and bookkeeping firms. So through that process, I really learned what to look for and, you know, not to take any business away from those businesses, but most of them are so busy. They have a hard time taking on new clients right now. You know, there's a shortage of, like, CPAs. And we're starting to see the same thing with bookkeepers. It's really hard to find good bookkeepers. And then a lot of smaller businesses, you know, I always like to say, can't afford it. I'm doing that in parentheses for those of you that are listening. We can only afford whatever we value in our business. But I find that most small business owners, if if their bookkeeping cost is 3 to $500 a month, they'll let it go. So it's funny. It's affordable.

Wayne Zell: It's funny because, I have the same experience. I mean, there's a shortage of CPAs because there's not enough kids graduating through the accounting programs. I teach in the accounting department at George Mason University, and I can attest to that. But the more importantly, I think they're so busy. The bigger firms or even smaller firms are so busy with compliance today that they can't do most of the stuff that needs to be done themselves. And so the fact that you offer that as an alternative, I think, a really valuable resource. I wanted to change from bookkeeping to software because I'm also interested in CRMs and different systems. Do you all favor one type of CRM for different types of industries over another, or do you have a lot of familiarity with the different CRMs? Or how does that work when you're working with a new client?

Kirsten Graham: We really just focus on one. Are you familiar with HighLevel or GoHighLevel? Yeah. Yeah. With that platform. So we moved to that platform not long after it started, and it was really interesting because at the time, they were fairly small. So we ended up having a conversation with one of the one of the owners, Sean, which was quite funny because, you know, Jeannie and I are quite a bit older than he is. Mhmm. And so after a couple conversations, we said we're moving over, but we don't ever wanna have to change software again. Like, at this age, if I have to change software, I'm coming for you. Right? And they have done a fantastic job. We are every day, we're even more excited with what they're doing with the software. So the way it works for us is we white label this software about four years ago, and that allowed us to give our clients all the funnels we've built out so we can give them just drop them in their accounts.

Wayne Zell: Beautiful.

Kirsten Graham: Then what we realized is it That's smart. Yeah. You like that? Yeah. It was it it all kinda happened by accident. We had no intentions of, like, white labeling the software or even, quote, unquote, selling the software. But what happened was our clients had that need. And so now our other part of our value add for our clients is we actually when they sign up for the software, one of our team members actually goes in and sets them up and shows them around personally. We host live calls every week. So whether they have questions or whether we're talking about the new features that are coming out or we're talking about strategy about how they can use it. So wanna make sure that they have everything they need, and then they can hire software virtual assistants on an ongoing basis as needed

Wayne Zell: Yeah.

Kirsten Graham: To make sure that they're they're using the software to to its fullest.

Wayne Zell: Do you help them find that additional software assistance too, The developer? As? You know, the integration of the system with their whatever they're using is if it's a Mac or a PC or whatever systems that they're using to collect contacts, to bill clients, to, you know, whatever. I found that that there's a lack of integration capability and there new there's new software out there that allows you to integrate the accounting systems with the the CRMs with, you know, all the stuff that you're talking about and trying to help clients with.

Kirsten Graham: Yeah. QuickBooks integrates with, with Go HighLevel. Our our version of some leads to sales, it integrates nicely. But they've also updated so many things that you can send invoices directly from the software so you don't necessarily have to log in to QuickBooks to send invoices. You could text invoices. There's so many things that you can do, but it really is it does integrate with a lot of other softwares. Most of our clients find that the Suite offers enough for them, but if not, you know, it can be connected usually through Zapier.

Wayne Zell: Awesome. Yeah. Zapier is what we use a lot too. How can how can a strategic outsourcing strategy increase your client's value before the owner considers selling the company? I think it's an obvious answer, but I think it's good to talk about that a little bit more.

Kirsten Graham: Yeah. Absolutely. So one, I think knowing the value of your customer. You know, what is your lifetime value of a customer? Having great relationships with your customers. After you leave, are those customers gonna stay loyal to that business because you have a great relationship with them and you have a way to continuously nurture them and stay in touch with them? I think that's a big part of it. Also, building a business that isn't just you. You know, a lot of small business owners, we have a hard time with that. Right? Is we can't be the business if we want to sell the business. So understanding that they really need to lean on systems, SOPs, things that will help them be able to step out of the day to day and to be able to grow the business larger because they're not in the business doing all the little nitty gritty things. I think that's the biggest impact, outsourcing and software can have.

Wayne Zell: I like that. I like that. It's it's cost savings, but it's also allowing the owner to focus on what's the most valuable to the owner, generating revenue, keeping in touch with the customers, generating recurring revenue, and all that. You know, I do a lot of m and a work, and I do a lot of exit planning, and the it's clear that buyers are looking for a business that can, have transferable value, which means that it can run without the founder. And so the ability to delegate, is critical. You have to have you have to have some staff, some people that can step in in the in your absence if you're the founder to run the business just like you were saying. The outsourcing really, you know, builds the, significant level of process and and, systems that people can utilize to, replicate, you know, tasks that otherwise couldn't, be replicated. But how does how does the outsourcing component make a company more valuable to a buyer?

Kirsten Graham: Well, one is it's more cost effective, so your profit margin's higher. Right? It's not just about revenue. It's about profit margins.

Wayne Zell: Yep.

Kirsten Graham: So anything we can do to cut costs and run our businesses lean is obviously gonna add more value to them. And for us, it's not either or. It's not like you have to outsource everything. You know, a lot of our clients have teams inside The US, and then they also have a team outside of The US. And we really focus on making your team overseas feel like part of your local team. And that's so easy to do now with Zoom. You know, you have that big screen on the TV and on the conference room, and when everyone's having a meeting, you know, there's your virtual assistants that are halfway around the world. So it really is easy to build a team that's both local and overseas.

Wayne Zell: If it's outsourced and it's overseas, how do you ensure that they're not competing with your business or serving a a competitor or, you know, doing something that may, you know, not necessarily mesh with what you wanna do here?

Kirsten Graham: I think that's virtually impossible, but it's probably also impossible in The US as well. You know, you can't guarantee anything. We find that our team members are very loyal. We're hiring for long term relationships for us and for our clients.

Wayne Zell: Okay.

Kirsten Graham: So we do a lot of things to we put a lot of things in place to make sure that our clients have a great relationship with their team members. You know, again, they're very hardworking, very loyal people. Most of them, if they're making enough money working with their clients and they've got full time work, they may they may not be seeking other employment. You know, we do have a couple people that work full time in The Philippines. They have full time jobs, but they work part time with us, and that's okay. So I think it's just you know, it's like anything else in life. You have to trust at some point. We do obviously have them sign confidentiality agreements, and we do really set boundaries of what we expect and what we want from them. And we we also believe in hire slowly, fire quickly. So we definitely spend a lot of time vetting the virtual assistants for us and our clients and then making sure that they're they know what they're stepping into, and they know what our expectations are from the start.

Wayne Zell: How do you vet these outsourced resources, whether it's software, bookkeeping, or marketing?

Kirsten Graham: Yeah. So we go through a really intense hiring process. So once we post a job post, we'll get so many applicants, and we have a very detailed weeding out process. My goal is ultimately to weed them out before they get to the first interview. Once they go through the first interview, we put them through a test or through a training portal that they have to finish again trying to weed them out. And then once they make it past that, in the marketing, they actually go into a paid internship for us. So there's a lot of steps that they have to go through before we're actually going to hire them.

Wayne Zell: Okay.

Kirsten Graham: But we we we also get really lucky. We have a lot of our virtual assistants refer friends or family members because they like what we're doing. So we get a lot of referrals, which I think is very helpful.

Wayne Zell: Word-of-mouth is excellent in terms of referrals. Every entrepreneur needs to build systems and processes. There's the entrepreneur operating system that Gina Wickman created in traction, and, you know, there there are other systems. But what systems and processes do you think every entrepreneur should put in place to make sure that their company is sellable?

Kirsten Graham: So first of all, I think creating SOPs is harder than we'd like to think that they are. It's as a business owner, you start a business, and then you get in there and you realize that there are things that you didn't even know you didn't know. And so and I think SOPs are one of those things. So finding a process that works for you luckily, my business partner, Jamie, is really awesome at creating SOPs, and she was able to create those for her agency so that, you know, it was easy to manage her team. We always focus on step by step instructions. We provide a lot of training, a lot of video training. We also believe you should lean into a project management software. So whether it's Trello or Asana or Monday or whatever you wanna use

Wayne Zell: Monday. Yeah.

Kirsten Graham: Definitely lean lean into something so that you're using a project management software.

Wayne Zell: So there's a lot of software. There's a lot of organization, and there's documentation, which is probably the most important thing from my perspective, making sure that somebody if somebody gets hit by the milk truck when they walk out the door, is there such a thing anymore? They walk out the door, they get by by the bus, and somebody else has to be hired. Have they documented every aspect of their job so that somebody else can come in and do it. And how do you cover that from an outsourced perspective?

I was just curious.

Kirsten Graham: We document it before we hire. You don't wanna wait for that person to get hit by the bus. You wanna have all of you know? So I I guess our hiring strategy would be, one, make sure you have a very detailed job description. What exactly do you want that person to do? Mhmm. And then what are the hard skills or the soft skills that you need that person to be really amazing in? And, again, we're not hiring a magic unicorn. You know, I want a bookkeeping VA. I want them to have a degree in accounting or finance. I wanna make sure that they're certified and have been certified for several years with QuickBooks or Xero. I wanna make sure that they work for a lot of small businesses so I know exactly who I'm dialing in to hire. The next thing is before you bring them on, have your SOPs in place, have your training in place, have your onboarding process in place so that you can bring them on. And then it's always about tweaking it. Right? Know, as you bring some on on, you'll start to change things a little bit as you learn, as you go. But you're you know, most people because I've had so many clients over the years who were devastated because, like, the right hand person was leaving or whatever. And, you know, it's always hard when you lose someone on your team, whether they're local or overseas. But, inevitably, I would say 99 times out of a 100, they can hire someone better for that job because they've dialed in the job even more so over the years. They've gotten better at hiring. They've they've become better at communicating. They're better at setting boundaries and expectations. So a lot of times when a key person leaves a business, sometimes it's a good thing, and it gives you an opportunity to hire someone, hopefully, that will level up your business.

Wayne Zell: I agree. That's that's a really good observation. Sometimes when somebody leaves, it is a good thing even though, you know, they've been there a long time, and they kinda get used to the way they've always done things, don't they? So maybe Yeah. New new thoughts.

When you start talking about AI, people get all nervous, but, really, it's the future of a lot of different professions, including mine. How how does outsourcing help a business owner reduce burnout and still build a scalable high value company because growth is critical to increasing value?

Kirsten Graham: Sometimes I think from my perspective, and I'd love to hear yours as well, Wayne, sometimes I think business owners do task they know they shouldn't be doing because it's safe. Right? It's really safe for me to sit in Canva and create those social media posts. It's really safe for me to do my own bookkeeping even though I suck at it and it takes me forever to do it. Right? Yeah. But it means I'm not having conversations. It means I'm not getting rejected. It means I'm not following up. So I feel like outsourcing the things that are eating your time that take you away from generating money is a 100% what every business owner needs to do.

And sometimes it's just a matter of acknowledging that, you know, it could be scary to have people say no to you. It may be scary to create just the biggest proposal you've ever put out in your lifetime. Yeah. But yeah. So I I think just having the support in your business with other people doing tasks, it frees you up to focus on what really matters.

Wayne Zell: The I I I don't disagree with that. I think it's it's true that, too many entrepreneurs like to be the, the chef, the cook, the bottle washer, the, you know, the janitor, every everything, the maitre d', the waitress, the waiter. It's just too difficult to do all of those things yourself. Although the the temptation is to do it because you know your business, and you think you know it better than anybody else. The the the conundrum, I think, arises when the entrepreneur outsources, and then they worry about the, the accuracy or the quality of the work product, and then they have to spend time reviewing and making sure that everything is, substantively okay.

The biggest issue I've had is with bookkeepers, not personally, but clients have complained or CPAs too, where they complain that they're not getting either the support that they thought they were gonna get or the work comes in and it's wrong. And so if you know, that just ends up eating more of the entrepreneur's time. How do we ensure that we don't have that issue arise for the entrepreneurs that we're working with?

Kirsten Graham: So we really encourage them to be an active part. Right? So rather than spending hours doing your own bookkeeping or learning a whole new software program and sitting around reading lead magnets or funnels or whatever you're doing, learn to delegate it and then learn to check behind the person. You know, with the bookkeeping BA, we always encourage our clients, especially if they have a great relationship with their CPA, have them review your books. Just call and say, I've got a new bookkeeper. I wanna make sure everything is categorized the way you think it should be categorized. I wanna make sure we're on track doing what you want us to do. And that right there will give you the peace of mind to know that it's set up the way your CPA wants it set up. And the bookkeeping VAs, they're not attached to anything. You know? If you if they your CPA wants them to change something, they're happy to change it. Yeah. So we also believe that every month, you should be meeting with your bookkeeper to go through your to go through your finances. I think a a huge mistake is business owners think that bookkeeping is just for tax time. Bookkeeping is about monitoring. Is your business successful? What offers do you have that are bringing in money? What offers, you know, do you need to increase the price on? Do you have subscriptions that you've been paying for that you're not even using? You know, are you wasting money that could be profit that could go in your pocket? So we focus a lot on being an active part of you know, you are the leader of your business. Act like the leader. We lead people. We manage tasks. So we we preach a lot on that.

Wayne Zell: Yeah. I mean, bookkeeping is not just bookkeeping. Book if you have a good bookkeeper, they're looking at these things, or you're asking them to, you know, generate KPIs, keep, you know, indicators of your business that will show that your performance is matching up to your expectations.

Kirsten Graham: And Yes.

Wayne Zell: It's it's the ability to present information in a way that the entrepreneur can use it and learn from it and tweak their business model as they go along. So I think it's more than just being a good bookkeeper. I think it's being a Yes. A bookkeeper who understands how to, you know, give information to an entrepreneur that they need. And that depends on every industry. You know, every industry is different. Every company is different. But, I think the last question I was gonna ask you, Kirsten, before I I let you, tell everybody how to get in touch with you and your partner is I know everybody starts from the beginning. I did as an entrepreneur. All my clients start with just them, usually. They don't you know, my my son-in-law is, building a business on his own. He's doing it really smartly. He started it just with him. Now he's got full time employees, and he's slowly, you know, growing. He's outsourced his accounting and bookkeeping, and all that stuff is good.

If they wanna start small, what's the first task that they should think about outsourcing to be creating a business that's ready to exit, which is my area of expertise? What should they be doing?

Kirsten Graham: So I think it depends on the person. So for example, the first thing my business partner, Jeannie, outsourced with her marketing agency was bookkeeping. She said she always saw that stack of receipts. She knew she knew what to do with it. It was just the last thing she wanted to do, so it always got put on the back burner. But she was like, they were just staring at me all the time. So when she hired a bookkeeper, she said it was like a boulder had been lifted off of her shoulders, and she felt so much more creative. So if there's something you hate doing in your business, I'm not tech savvy. So when it comes to building funnels or, you know, any of the tech side to dealing with software, it drives me nuts. So that's something I definitely would outsource first. If you're a person who you wanna have a podcast or you want to have a YouTube channel, but you don't wanna get stuck in the minutiae of learning how to edit videos or how to clean up audio or upload it to YouTube with all of the SEO and all the things that go into it, outsource that. So I think it really depends on the business owner. Ask yourself, what is something that is eating in my energy that's not getting done because I keep pushing it away? And then ask yourself, how would I feel if I had a competent person on my team doing this for me and all I had to do was review what they're doing and coach them to make sure it's being done the way I want it?

Wayne Zell: Love it.

Kirsten Graham: And it's amazing. People feel it's interesting because, you know, you expect them to have that feel like that boulder's lifted off their shoulder. Right? That's something we we've all experienced when we delegate things. What surprised me the most, Wayne, was when people came back and said things like, I feel like a real business owner now that I started to build a team. I had no idea how isolated and lonely I was in my business. I love all of my team meetings. I love bouncing creative ideas off of my marketing virtual assistant. Know, You I love being able to ask my bookkeeping virtual assistant questions and not feeling like they're talking down to me. I finally actually understand a p and l statement, and so I can have a better conversation with my CPA. So when they really start to feel like their business is bigger than them, it changes their confidence, and I think it changes everything about them and how they see their business. I wasn't expecting that when we first started this, and it's been it really has been a blessing to be able to be a part of that if that makes sense.

Wayne Zell: I love it. Well, we've been talking with Kirsten Graham, who is the CEO of Six Figure Business Coaching and has created the marketing VA advantage. Kirsten, if somebody wants to get in touch with you, I know there's a lot of different ways they can. Give us a couple of, the connections that they can, find you and your, podcasts and your blogs on.

Kirsten Graham: Yeah. So just go to 6figurebusinesscoaching.com, and that's sixfigurebusinesscoaching.com. We have two podcasts. We have a lot of blogs. We have lots of resources and tools. We're in the middle of updating all of our website and branding, so we're excited about that. I also have a free guide if you'd like to get that. It's called double your income with a marketing VA, and you can get that at outsourcingforbosses.com.

Wayne Zell: And it's about doubling your income, not necessarily doubling your revenues. You may be good at generating the revenue, but why spend time on stuff that's gonna cost you a lot in terms of lost revenue, lost opportunities. That's what outsourcing is all about, isn't it?

Kirsten Graham: Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Making your business way more profitable. Stop doing those 3 to $6 an hour task yourself.

Wayne Zell: 3 to $6 an hour? That's gotta be The Philippines. Yes. Or somewhere else.

Kirsten Graham: Serbia or Pakistan. Yeah.

Wayne Zell: Yeah. Croatia. Yeah. We've got we've got software developers in Romania all over the place. So that's pretty cool,

Kirsten Graham: isn't it?

Wayne Zell: It is neat. Well, thank you for being a special guest on Blueprint for Wealth. I really appreciate your time today.

Kirsten Graham: I really appreciate it, Wayne. It was a great conversation. Thank you for having me.

Wayne Zell: Thank you. And join us next time on Blueprint for Wealth for another interesting, compelling, and great guest that's gonna teach you something new about something you may not have known about before. Have a great week.